good afternoon. i'm mara schiavocampo. turkey is getting involved now with the prime minister promising to support palestinians in gaza. and while the white house says israel has the right to defend itself, they're hoping for a diplomatic solution. president obama is tackling foreign policy as he starts his first trip abroad since the summer, making an historic trip to asia. let's bring you up to date. air raid sirens have been sounding again in tel aviv today for yet another day as rocket fire from gaza continues. a rocket launched toward tel aviv was blown up in the sky by the israeli missile defense system known as irondome. militants have fired more than 100 rockets towards israel today. israel's response has been to bombard gaza with hundreds of air strikes. these images were captured earlier in gaza. the associated press is now reporting 300 air strikes on

gaza today alone. at this moment, the president is on board air force one on his way to southeast asia. the plane stopped in the last hour to refuel at ramstein air force base in germany. white house officials brief the press en route to germany, saying the president is being updated on the ongoing crisis on the israel and gaza border. joining me now from the white house is nbc's viqueira. you were listening as the audio was piped back to the white house. >> yes. >> did you get the sense the president is using his time on the flight to focus on diplomacy in the middle east? there. >> the concern is heightening as the hour goes by. the exchange of rocket between hamas in the gaza strip and the form of the israeli defense forces really is raising concerns here and abroad. the president spoke again with prime minister benjamin netanyahu of israel. he has spoken with him each of the last four days since this really has escalated, mar rachlt they talked about the iron dome

program. this is the rocket defense system that has worked relatively effectively at getting good reviews now. this is a system that the united states has helped design and pay for to assist israel. it has picked off maybe a third of the rockets that have headed into israeli territory over the past several days. they also talked about the need for a deescalation of what is happening. this exchange of rocket fire. the president also exchanging calls in the last 24 hours with the leader of turkey, the newly installed president of egypt, mohamed morsi, trying to encourage them to engage with hamas. of course, hamas is classified technically with the u.s. government as a terrorist organization, there are no formal ties, trying to engage hamas to stop this rocket attack to come to some sort of solution so cooler heads can prevail, mara. >> one of the things in terms of the political issue here, the president in the past has been criticized for not being strong enough in his support of israel. do you get the response in washington that his response now is significant in satisfying

people who would like for him to express stronger support for israel? >> you know, there has been some controversy, some tension, frankly, between prime minister netanyahu and the president. that's no secret. there was the recent episode where the prime minister went before the united nations andrew that red line, you remember, across that little cartoon bomb. some disagreement about when and where that red line should be drawn with respect to iran's nuclear program. but look, there is no question that any american president, any american government is going to back up israel if it comes to any kind of military conflict with some of its neighbors that wish for its destruction, frankly. and in fact, the senior official on the airplane today said the following about a possible israeli ground invasion of the gaza strip, something that nobody wants to see, but it's a very real possibility as israel quiets ready and prepares for that possibility. the white house official says israel can, quote, make their own decisions about tactics and operations, and certainly for public consumption, that's going

to be seen as a green light for israel to do what it sees fit. >> mick viviqueira, thank you vh for that. there has been a fresh hamas rocket attack on the israeli town. hamas fired more than 100 rockets at israel today, while israel has responded with more than 300 air strikes on targets in gaza. last hour i spoke with israel's ambassador to the u.s. who says the situation is intolerable. >> we now have millions upon millions of israelis that are under rocket fire. over half the country. no country in the world, no government would tolerate such a situation where over half of its population is sitting in bomb shelters all night. >> now as we mentioned, there were 100 rockets with israel with 300 in israel. i'm curious about that calculation, 100 to 300. as you noted in your reporting, the hamas rockets are much less

accurate. what is the effect that the air strikes, or the israeli air strikes are having gaza, and militarily speaking, are these two sides on equal footing? >> well, you know, the short answer to that is absolutely not. in fact, the israeli ambassador mentioned that half of the population is in bunkers. well, the entire population of gaza is not in bunkers because they don't have bunkers, and there is no early warning system. the only thing we are hearing right now are the sounds of the israeli drones above, with the possibility they could strike any time. when you talk to palestinians, what they will tell you is they are living in a state of fear, a state of terror. they don't know when these attacks are going to happen. and to add to that point, they are not two equal mill tears fighting side by side. the israeli military is one of the most advanced well equipped militaries in the world. hamas is firing rockets that in the eyes of many are considered to be makeshift. they don't have a lot of explosive components to them. they're poorly guarded. so people say and criticize this

as a disproportionate use of force on the palestinian people. and many international organizations have described it as collective punishment. on the other hand, what we are seeing right now are the people here in gaza are bracing themselves for a possible ground invasion. and that could certainly have even more dire consequences on the civilian population here. mara? >> and what is the latest on efforts to reach a ceasefire, especially after the meetings in egypt earlier today? >> well, the focus has shifted away from gaza. although this is the epicenter of the violence that is taking place, all eyes are in cairo, egypt. the head of egypt's intelligence has met with lead others palestinian factions. they say they're committed to a ceasefire under two conditions. one is that israel promises or at least pledges or guarantees that it will not resume targeted assassination and the deliberate killing of palestinian leaders and a lifting of the blockade and siege that has been imposed on gaza since 2006, which has restricted the free movement of people and goods and has really created a humanitarian crisis here.

so they want to see that siege lifted. the egyptian, we understand, are expected to or may have actually communicated that to the israelis. and so it is now dependent on whether or not they can get the two sides to a cessation of hostilities, and when that time frame would unfold. so there is still no clear official timeline or clear answer, and no clear commitment from either side. but those interest demands as we understand them as they are being negotiated from the palestinian side. >> all right. live in gaza, thanks for that report. so what does the crisis mean for the middle east peace process? joining me aaron david miller at the national center for scholars. he served as a middle east adviser to six secretaries of state over the past decade. there have been treaties. who broke the truce? >> it was both inevitable and predictable, in large part because there is no end state. i mean, you've got two entities,

israel and hamas as an organization that have fundamentally conflicting goals. and the reality is that at some point, both for political and security reasons, what existed since '08 was going to come apart, and it did. this time it came apart i think for three reasons. number one, you had a number of jihadi groups that over the last several months were testing israel's reaction and deterrent capacity. number two, hamas is either unwilling or unable, given its own convictions struggle to control them. and number three you have a very uneasy and nervous israel which number one is under great pressure from the southern communities to come up with an answer to the high trajectory weapons. and number two, i think eager to demonstrate its deterrent capacity because of all the

uncertainties in the region, including iran. >> now, hamas is firing rockets that have the range to reach tel aviv and jerusalem. we're also seeing a lot more of them, 200 in 2009 and 700 this year alone. so is this a new capability for them? and why are we seeing so much more of this now? >> there is no question. and this gets to the heart of the issue, i think. you don't have an end state as a consequence, what happened in '08 and '09, bought two or three quiet years. then a slow and accelerated deterioration over the course of this year. but the reality in the interim, hamas has clearly deepened its stockpile of both long and short-range high trajectory weapons. and that is the real problem. unless the israelis are prepared to go into gaza and sit there for a very long time, and even that isn't going to solve the problem, there is really no way to eliminate completely hamas's capacity to target not only

southern communities close to gaza, but as several of these launches have suggested, areas very approximate to tel aviv and jerusalem. >> now prime minister netanyahu is running for reelection in january. rocket attacks from gaza and the damage they have caused in southern israel has been a hot political topic throughout the country. so how have israeli domestic politics played a role in the current fighting between israel and hamas? >> well, i think there is pressure on a prime minister who is already very tough on this issue. to find a way to deal with the high trajectory weapons. the fact that there are elections coming have only heightened the stakes, it seems to me. if this operation goes well, that is to say if the israelis can avoid a ground incursion, both inducing palestinian casualties and incurring casualties on their own, and some interim agreement is reached, which essentially stabilizes the situation, then by and large, i suspect this will be, i don't know, i give this one to the prime minister,

but on points. this will not be regarded as a fundamental or strategic victory. on the other hand, hamas may well extract certain concessions out of this, political concessions from the egyptians and the turks who are already supporting them that may actually top what the israelis derive from this operation. >> and quickly, as far as iran is concerned, netanyahu has taken a hard line against iran in his nuclear weapons program. what would israel do if iran is supplying weapons to hamas? >> they are. i don't think there is any question about that. but through hezbollah and through the tunnels and through sea-lanes and across sinai, maybe even perhaps from north africa or sudan. the israelis are doing what they're doing. they've decided to put a deterrent strategy into effect to try to get hamas to stand down and to destroy what they can identify and find in terms of these long-range high

trajectory weapons. >> all right, aaron david miller from the woodrow wilson center. thank you so much for your time, sir. >> pleasure. another explosion on an oil rig in the gulf of mexico brings back painful memories of the bp spill. we'll have an update on the latest off the coast of louisiana. plus, michele bachmann's a tea party darling, but our next guest says the tea party is over. that's next. into their work,

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the tea party style of rage is not one that wins over converts and makes people lean toward them and say i want to listen to you.

>> that was conservative columnist peggy noonan giving her take on gop election losses. for a while it looked like the tea party would have its best year yet in 2012, the party that first brought us birthers and just this week impeachers could have made big gains on election night. yet voters just said, no giving several high profile tea party candidates the boot. but even after its influence wanes, the tea party has already left its mark on american politician. a fellow at the university of texas and a contributor to nbc latino. and i should note to our viewers she is on a four-second delay. welcome to you. in your recent latino.com column, you write, quote, as in any party, there will be the stragglers who stay on until they are either kicked out or pass out. the same goes for the tea partiers. at the national and state level tea partiers will keep hanging on. but the critical mass has dwindled. do you really think the tea party is over, and do you see a come back in the next few years? >> mara, what i see is the tea

party rager is over. again, there are those die-hard folks hanging out in the kitchen, still taking shots of cooking sheri. but what we saw is that the overreach that came with all of these bills dealing with abortion, vaginal ultrasound, anti-immigrant movements got the american electorate to want to moderate itself. we saw that at the federal level, especially in the senate, the reelection of president barack obama, and also at the state level, where we have seen a number of states reclaim democratic chambers, dozens and dozens of more democratic legislators coming back into the force. what we see here is the tea party is dwindling. i live in texas. so the tea party is alive and well in texas. but we're just seeing the diminished movement of what was all the rage in 2010. and we thought was going to rage on for another couple of years. >> now the tea party made its impact by pushing republicans to the far right, so far that it proved nearly impossible for mitt romney to find his way back in time for the election.

so what in your opinion will the republican of 2014 or 2016 have to be in terms of ideas and policy positions? >> well, and we've seen that struggle right now, especially with jeb bush, for example. the moderate republicans, let's call them the chamber of commerce republicans trying to move back to the center, and trying to go back to an era of, say, bush-style policy, either bush one or bush two. and by that, trying to court some key electorates. and in this case, i mean latinos, because what we know from the demographic work of say the p punta gorda hispanic center, in the next two decades, the latino population will account for half of the growth in the american electorate. the republican party, in order to stay salient both at the national level and at the state and local level will have to expand its base, namely with latinos. of course also with women and independents. we can't forget about them. in 2012 we saw independents

highly alienated. they cleaved a little toward romney. but by in large, they stayed home. they didn't go to the party. >> in an interview with abc news last week, house speaker john boehner said this about immigration reform. quote, while i believe it's important for us to secure our borders and enforce our laws, i think a comprehensive approach is long overdue and i'm confident myself, the president and others can find the common ground to take care of this issue once and for all. later he tried to backout after he was called out by conservative tea party bloggers as well as conservative members of congress. this a sign that the tea party isn't quite over yet? >> and it's not. and i think sometimes the people who are left are the most extreme. and they're going the double down. and again, we're seeing this in indiana, for example, in texas, a little bit in georgia. so the people who are left are going to give it their all. but where we're going to see in the next two to three years is

the pressure of needing to get electoral gains there is only so many elections you can lose before you change course. and that's going happen. maybe they can hang on for another two years. but beyond that, the math doesn't add up for republican party to keep on this strategy. >> all right. victoria defrancesco soto, we'll have to leave it there. thank you for spending part of your weekend with us. coming up, prime time biden, reviews for the president's appearance on "pass, & recreations." and what led president obama to make this sour face while at the white house? [ female announcer ] with swiffer dusters, a great clean doesn't have to take longer. i'm done. i'm gonna read one of these. i'm gonna read one of these! [ female announcer ] unlike sprays and dust rags, swiffer 360 duster's extender gets into hard-to-reach places without the hassle. so you can get unbelievable dust pickup in less time without missing a thing.

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week. maroney became an internet sensation after she made a similar face after winning a silver at the 2012 olympics in london. good news for vice president biden who made his prime time tv debut on nbc's "pass, & recreation." >> welcome, welcome. [ laughter ] >> you're -- my name just came out of your mouth. >> well, it did. >> this isn't happening. this isn't real. >> no, it's happening. and i'm delighted to have you here. i'm told you've done such a great job in your town and in the state of indiana. and i just want to say congratulations for your public service. >> i just want the say thank you. >> well, you -- you are very welcome. you're very welcome. you're very welcome. >> you're very handsome. >> the grades are in. voters are giving president obama a "c" plus for his campaign performance. mitt romney got a c. pollsters got a "c" plus. and the press a c minus.

ouch. more than 2/3 said there was more than the usual mudslinging this year. another bush may be getting into politics. former florida governor jeb bush has sent out a letter on behalf of george p. bush. finally, today is john boehner's 63rd birthday. and to help him celebrate and maybe smooth over the fiscal cliff discussions, president obama gave boehner is $125 bottle of red wine, a vintage 1997. we'll get you up to speed on the latest developments from the middle east. the white house hoping for deescalation in the face of increasing attacks and counterattacks from hamas and israel. why democrats are concerned about their numbers in the senate, despite winning a majority there. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ♪ i always wait until the last minute.

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i'm mara schiavocampo. outrage in egypt after 49 kindergartners were killed when a train slammed into their school bus this morning. the bus was carrying more than 50 children when it was hit by the speeding train. a security official says the railroad crossing was not closed at the time. egypt's new president is promising a full investigation. the country has a history of tragic train accidents. two workers disappear affidavit an explosion in an oil rig in the gulf of mexico. it happened friday about 25 miles off the louisiana coast. no oil was spilled from the well. the rig is owned by black elk energy. four other workers are in critical condition. and in missouri, police say a 20-year-old man is under arrest, accused of planning a mass shooting at a sunday night showing of the "twilight" move. police say his mother called authorities, afraid that her son had bought two rifles similar to

the ones use in the colorado theater shooting. police say lammers admitted to that plan. more on the developing situation in the middle east. could there be a ceasefire in the works, one that would include a guarantee from i that it would l not resume assassinations of high-ranking palestinian leaders and a ceasing of rockets from gaza? earlier on msnbc, the chief spokesman for prime minister netanyahu was skeptical of a truce. >> we're interested in a real solution, and not in a band-aid solution. if we get quiet tomorrow, but a week from now, a month from now we just get more rockets on our civilian population, that's not an option. we don't want a quick fix that doesn't really work. >> and for the latest on our developing story, let's go now to tel aviv, where nbc's martin fletcher is following the latest developments. martin? >> palestinians are still firing rockets from gaza into israel, and israel is continuing to pound palestinian targets in gaza. this has been an intensive day, which began with 200 separate

israeli air strikes against gaza, killing up to at least 12 palestinians in gaza. they flattened the prime minister's office. they destroyed the police headquarters, attacking what they called hamas symbols of power. but now all eyes are on israel's army. and the question is will israel's army launch a ground invasion of gaza. the army is poised. they're ready. they're on the border. tanks are there. armored personnel carriers are building up. the has given the okay to call up 57,000 reserve soldiers to join the regular army. but this evening because of the pressure, because of the buildup and the fear of a possible ground invasion, there is a great intensity now leading to talks among arab states with hamas trying to persuade them to agree with israel for a truce. and israel is talking to the united states government and the government of germany. everyone is trying to put together a truce, even if it's only a temporary one, to begin

as soon as possible, for the alternative the a truce is a ground invasion. the question now is what comes first, a ground invasion of gaza or a truce between hamas and israel, even own a temporary one. now back to you. >> nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv, thank you. turning back now to domestic politics. i'm joined by correspondent for the nation and msnbc contributor ari melber who has some thoughts about upcoming democraticic legislative efforts aimed at breaking the gridlock in washington. >> thanks. this week president obama gave his first news conference since being reelected in which he urged congress to act on a very big issue, immigration reform. >> this is not historically been a partisan issue. we've had president obama and john mccain and others who have supported comprehensive immigration reform in the pass. so we need to seize the moment. >> but a majority in congress has already seized the moment and stood up for immigration reform. in the house, a majority passed the dream act in 2010, and in

the senate 54 senators backed it. the dream act is not law because it was filibustered by the republican minor. the filibuster of course is the opposition's weapon of choice. so enacting any big legislation in the future may require some big changes to the filibuster itself. now in the last congress, senate democrats tried to enact filibuster reform, but they didn't get anywhere. now democrats are considering a pretty traditional tweak, forcing republicans to actually go down on the senate floor and speak for hours if they want to obstruct. nowadays, the minority party can basically block a bill just by threatening to filibuster without actually having to go to the floor. here is how jeff merkley explained the new plan. he said, quote, i think about the veterans job bill. if the republicans had instead of killing it through the silent filibuster, if they had to take that t floor we're blocking a vote, i think enough americans would have given feedback on both sides of the aisle and said that's crazy, stop that. in other words, filibusters would have to look a lot more like this classic scene.

>> wild horses aren't going to drag me off this floor until those people have heard everything i've got to say, even if it takes all winter. >> that's right. in "mr. smith goes to washington" the filibuster exposed a secret problem in washington. today the filibuster is the secret problem. i think any plans to expose it, making politicians accountable for their obstruction would be a step towards ending gridlock in this congress. . that would definitely be quite a spectacle, seeing senators on the floor all night long, reading historic documents, a phone book, cookbooks, they say that the minority protection rights in the filibuster are a good thing, and number two, they say there is no point in making them actually use up all that time because they are demonstrating their willingness to filibuster amount. you the so-called cloture votes. but the big difference you saw from the mr. smith is look, in the old days there was a penalty

associated with exercising this right. today you have this powerful obstruction, and you don't have much of a check on it. >> all right, ari, thank you for that. and stand by while i bring in the rest of our brain trust. perry bacon is political editor for the grio and msnbc contributor and peter suitorman is the senior editor at reason magazine. thanks, guys for joining me. >> thank you. >> it's the boys club today. to lead the charge for filibuster reform, writing, quote, voters want political leaders who are willing to break the partisan gridlock. they want fewer closed door roadblocks and more votes on legislation that could improve their lives. she says she is joined by all incoming democratic senators. so perry, this question is for you. is this an idea whose time has come? >> i think it has. you have seen that harry reid, who is a long-time senator and traditionally someone who likes the senate rules as they have been, he has opposed filibuster reform in the past, but he has now jumped on board and said it's time. you're seeing a lot of other veteran democratic senators.

the new ones being for this is not surprising. but you're seeing old democratic senators who have been in the minority before saying this is the time. the big issue is not just bills, which ari was talking about, but also nominees. you saw president obama couldn't appoint anyone virtually to even low-level post during his first term because mr. mcconnell was virtually blocking people for assistant saebs of all kinds of jobs, which is kind of unprecedented in washington, and which democrats are really very worried about. >> ari, the hill reports that as of this week, democrats don't have enough votes for reform. so is this idea actually dead on arrival? >> i don't think it's dead on arrival at all. i do think it's true that these issues are often treated initially as partisan matters there is something different going on. there is a big conversation as we know in the republican party about what kind of party they want to be, how they bounce back from this election, and how they continue to integrate the tea party, which i think is less committed to some of these old traditions as compared to the establishment.

perry hit on it. having new senators isn't the issue. the issue is the coalition of the new and getting other people to change their minds. it's really key to have that kind of reform. and i think there is an opening here for some republicans to actually say they want full floor votes. they don't want congress to just be blocking. >> peter, jonathan bernstein in the "washington post" predicts that the talking fill bust worry be a flop, saying republicans would take to the floor and start arguing for bill. fox news and rush limbaugh would treat them as heroes. the result is they would be stacked up in line to deliver ringing denunciations stocked with the latest talking points there is no need to talk from the phone books when there are transcripts of glenn beck's show to deliver. so what do you make of that assessment? >> i think we have certainly seen that republicans in the senate, especially have been willing to find loopholes and exploit them to their advantage. whenever they can find loopholes

in the rules, they have taken advantage of them. i don't think there is anything particularly wrong with that the rules are the rules. you make use of them as they are. but the thing to remember here i think that has been overlooked a little bit is that when democrats were in the minority in this senate, they were very wary of reforming the filibuster. joe biden said that filibuster reforms are about the arrogance of power. and harry reid said reforming the filibuster was a bad idea because it was sort of the last protection on individual rights. it was the last protection against abuses of power in washington. and if democrats try this now, then it's -- there is a good chance it could come back to bite them again in the future hen they are inevitably at some point in the minority. >> you know, mara, just real quickly, i think the point you raise about bernstein is a good one. it depends on the issue. if you're filibustering for example, obama care, there is no doubt a lot of the republican grassroots would rally behind it, and i think that would be good for democracy. i'm not talking about eliminating the entire rule. but if you're talking about shutting down all of congress

during a recession so you can filibuster a nominee to a administrative position that no one has heard of, i'm not even sure glenn beck is going to get excited about that. that's where you get the tailspin because a lot of people say i don't believe this is what congress, either party wants to spend its time on. >> stick around with me for one second. we're going to keep our brain trust around. coming up next, who are these guys? a spirit of bipartisanship breaks out at the white house. but it is the real thing? and will it lead to a real deal to avoid the fiscal cliff? to do an experiment. we put a week of her family's smelly stuff all in at once to prove that febreze car vent clips could eliminate the odor. then we brought her family to our test facility to see if it worked. [ woman ] take a deep breath, tell me what you smell. something fresh. a beach. a clean house. my new car. [ woman ] go ahead and take your blindfolds off. oh!! hahahaha!!! look at all this garbage!!! [ male announcer ] febreze car. eliminates odors for continuous freshness, so you can breathe happy.

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we've put revenue on the table. as long as it's accompanied by significant spending cuts. >> we're prepared to put revenue on the table, provided we fix the real problem. >> ari, are we seeing the beginning of a new era of bipartisanship here? >> no. i don't think we are. there are two problems here from the sound you played, which i think is the right point to focus on. they said revenue, not necessarily taxes. we know, everyone who follows politics understands the current sticking point on the tax plan is whether you want to deal with all the goodies that millionaires get or not. the president has said that's a red line. the republicans are gestures some more towards it, but not really giving in yet. and that may be a legislative strategy that they think is going to work for them. i don't think it will, because i do think we are in a different world. we are in a post-romney, postman date post-november world. it is not a world favorable to republicans who want to take the

budget hostage to help millionaires. you have to figure out whether or not these folks want to treat these deadlines as real or not. my suspicion here having worked in congress and following these issues, i don't think these deadlines were real. they weren't real last time. sequestration and these issues can always be kicked down the road. >> you say this is not a new era of bipartisanship. but it certainly seems much less acrimonious than when we were seeing the debt ceiling deal. so what is different now? >> well, i think the rhetoric hasn't gotten heated yet, though, again, not to be negative here on a beautiful weekend day, but there is a lot of time yet. i think what we're seeing right now is a desire to make some gesture of cooperation right after the election. the test of bipartisanship is legislation, not words. and so the question will be whether the three menu just showed on screen, whether mcconnell, boehner and the president can ultimately get a deal on legislation. and that's why i'm not

optimistic about the bipartisanship, nor do i think it has to be very bipartisan. i just had to get done. >> i want to read you something that "the wall street journal" wrote. their editorial board wrote the gop should take a deal on budget writing negotiations. if the republicans don't blink and we go over the cliff, from the president's point of view, so what? the president then has a point to blame the republicans. meanwhile, higher tax rates take effect on january 1st anyway and he can negotiate a budget deal negotiation year without having to make any tax recessions. do you think the republicans should take the deal and move on? >> thing is two ways to interpret the results of the most recent election here. one is that americans voted for bipartisanship because they voted for a divided congress. the other is that they voted for gridlock. they voted for a divided congress here in which republicans control the house and in which republicans can act as a check on the democratic agenda. now it suggests strongly that

they weren't wholly on board with the republican agenda and they had big problems wit, and that's why they reelected barack obama as president. on the other hand, they did put republicans back in charge. and that suggests that they want a check there, and that they want republicans to act like republicans in the house. >> now president obama talked about his second term agenda during his news conference this week. let's take a listen to what he had to say. >> i want a big deal. i want a comprehensive deal. right now what i want to make sure is the tax on middle class families don't go up. and there is a very easy way the do that. we could get that done by next week. i'm very confident that we could get immigration reform done. we can shape an agenda that says we can create jobs, advance growth, and make a serious dent in climate change and be an international leader. i think that's something that the american people would support. >> now perry, there may be room for agreement on at least one or two of those items, but how long do you expect cooperation to continue? >> immigration reform, i would take this issue by issue. immigration reform i think will

pass because the republicans recognize they can't lose latino vote by 40 points and continue in politics. they need to do better on that issue. when i come back to the tax issue, as ari said, i'm not optimistic either. the reason is you look at what boehner said. boehner was for a deal last year. we have to figure out what does eric cantor think, what does michele bachmann think, what does rand paul think? john bainer is the leader of the republican party in name, but he often is not leading them in policy. unless we know obama $1 trillion in tax increases, i'm not sure that rush limbaugh is for that right now. until we know that other conservatives outside of john boehner support that idea, it's hard to see where the compromise is. so i think i'm not optimistic either about where we are right now. >> just to jump in, i would echo that. sometimes we analyze these guys like boehner is the ceo. and that may be the case, but he has a board of directors. he's got other stakeholders to deal with. and we've got to see some movement from them if that bipartisanship that you were talking about in the beginning, mara, if that's going to go

anywhere. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> i would just point out there was real skepticism about whether boehner could deliver a deal with the debt ceiling fight. and his party did buck his leadership to some extent, but ultimately they came around. >> and looking ahead to 2016, and perry, you mentioned the gap in support with hispanics. and we saw the same thing with african-americans and with asian americans. so what do you think the republicans need to do to better position themselves for next election? >> i think immigration reform is an issue there they're already working on. you saw boehner is already making different remarks about it. mostly you're going to see a difference in tone. did you notice this week mitt romney makes this comment that was obviously not the right thing to say, and basically a representation of the remark he made earlier. and you saw bobby jindal jumped on him. but not just that, but so did pretty much every republican in washington and elsewhere jumped on him. you're going to see a difference in tone from the republicans. and i don't know if that will work or not, but you're definitely going to see it. and you're already seeing the early signs of it. >> so then, peter, what is the first step in rebuilding the party? >> i think the first step in

rebuilding the party is distancing itself from its last nominee, but also distancing itself from george w. bush. and this has been a big problem for the republicans is that they've always been a sort of loyalist party that sticks by their guys that was a big problem for mitt romney. it really sort of contained him and con stwland he could do, because he could never really say anything bad about george bush. the party right now is taking good first steps in distancing itself from a nominee who didn't do the job, didn't get it done. and they need to find something new. >> all right, guys. stick with me if you will. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, why 2016 just got a little closer to reality this week. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. [ male announcer ] this is anna, her long day teaching the perfect swing begins with back pain and a choice. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. good eye.

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i'm back now with the brain trust panel. ari melber, an msnbc contributor and correspondent for the nation, perry bacon, political

editor for the grio, and an msnbc contributor, and peter suderman of reason magazine. thanks for coming back, guys. this week bobby jindal was one of the first republicans to call out mitt romney for comments where he essentially said the voters allowed themselves to be bribed by democrats. watch. >> we need to stop being the dumb party. well need to offer smart, conservative, intelligent ideas and policies. that's how we win elections. we don't win elections by insulting voters. >> and next up, new jersey governor chris christie. let's take a look at what he had to say. >> do you agree with bobby jinds dall, it was a terrible thing to say and it was said terribly? >> sure. you can't expect to be the leader of all the people and be divisive, okay. you have to talk about themes, policies that unite people. and play to their aspirations and their goals and their hopes for their family and their neighbors. and i always a think this kind of scapegoating after elections.

when you lose, you lost. why did mitt romney lose? because he got less votes than barack obama. that's why. >> okay, so that's jindal, christie for 2016. perry, who else is possibly on this list? >> i think -- it's my firm belief that the republican ticket will have a minority or a woman on the ticket no matter what in 2016. i think you saw susannah martinez criticize the new mexico governor you. saw jindal. you have seen marco rubio in iowa today as well. i think this is a great move by jindal to get himself in the front of the line to be the first one saying this party needs to expand, and i'm the person to help do that. he was very aggressive and sort of set the bar for republicans in terms of criticizing the remark. >> and as perry mentioned, marco rubio is already in iowa. it possible we're seeing potential candidates launching a four-year campaign? >> i don't know. i don't think we have to read too much into it. we don't know who is going to run in the next election or the election after.

we don't know 2016. we don't know 2020. if we spend too much time worrying about it, we're going to be reading the tea levels of people's travel schedules. we can look to issues, though. and i think the issue that is going to animate the republican party going into 2016 will be both immigration and populism. what does it mean to have an inclusive country and a path to residency and citizenship, even if you hold more conservative views about how to get it done or how to regulate it. and then number two, what does it mean to be populist when we have long-term unemployment, no matter what this congress does, no matter what the president does, we are in a new normal where we have a terrible ongoing jobs crisis. so the question for both parties isn't for starters who do you love? a lot of people love barack obama right now. but he is going to finish his term. a lot of people are loving certain guys, gals and gals wuy might run. what are the ideas that are going to empower populism. i think a big one is reforming the tax code so it's less tilted

towards millionaires. >> peter, the last word on this. another possible 2016 candidate is hillary clinton. she is headed to capitol hill for benghazi hearing. is this the kind of attention she wants right now? >> i think -- hillary clinton is probably looking to avoid controversy at this point. but, you know, she is secretary of state. this is the job she has to do. personnel is policy. and with these folks, you know, you get to see what the administration has to offer. and it's right now it's hillary clinton. >> all right. perfect timing. ari, perry, peter, can't say that too fast. thank you, guys for your time this afternoon. that will do it for me, i'm mara schiavocampo. we'll keep you updated throughout the evening on the developing situation in the middle east. and join richard lui from 3:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. and be sure to tune in to meet the press. david gregory will talk to lindsey gram and dianne feinstein as well as congressman

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